Zweifel vor meinem ersten Trezor

[root_s2yse8vt]

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Hallo zusammen, vor einiger Zeit entdeckte ich, dass jemand zufällig eine Seed-Phrase generieren kann und die Gelder überprüft, bis er schließlich zu einer Wallet mit Geldern kommt. (Ich weiß, die Chancen sind nahe bei 0)
Aber danach habe ich mich ernsthaft mit einer Hardware-Wallet beschäftigt, aber ich habe immer noch einige Zweifel, die ich nach der Suche im Internet nicht genau beantworten konnte:
– Könnte die Seed-Phrase in meiner Wallet immer noch zufällig generiert werden und das Guthaben von Blockchain-Explorern überprüfen?Würde die Passphrase verhindern, dass mein Guthaben gesehen und verwendet wird?
– Was die Passphrase betrifft, würde sie auch verhindern, dass mein Guthaben aufgebraucht wird, wenn jemand meine Seed-Phrase findet?
– Ich dachte an das Modell T, aber ich sah, dass es 12 Wörter Phrase anstelle von 24 generiert, so würde ich mit dem Modell ein gehen.

Ich mag den Gedanken nicht, dass irgendwo einige Leute Seed-Phrasen „minen“ könnten, bis sie eine mit Geldmitteln bekommen, also bin ich lieber extra sicher mit einer 24-Wörter-Phrase (Sie können das entlarven, wenn ich falsch liege).

[99999999999999999989]

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Yes it absolutely can happen.

keys.lol has a list published online of all private keys for all bitcoin wallets. All you have to do is go to the correct page and find a private key that has funds and they are yours for the taking. Each page has only 128 listing on it for easy perusal.

The kicker? There are **literally** 904,625,697,166,532,776,746,648,320,380,374,280,100,293,470,930,272,690,489,102,837,043,110,636,675 pages of 128 entries each (well the last page has fewer than 128 but we’ll call it 128 to make the math easier). Everyone’s bitcoins are on one of these pages.

So take that number. Multiply it by 128. Call that result FreeBTC. The odds that you will find a wallet with funds using that site (or random key generation) are 1 to FreeBTC against. Oh yeah, you cannot search the thing based on public key. You *could* put your private key in to see your balance but that would be a stupid thing to do. Don’t do that.

Your coins, my coins, everyone’s coins are safe against a brute force attack using a random seed generator.

[HeroicLife]

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> I was thinking on getting model T, but I saw it generates 12 words phrase instead of 24 so I would go with the model one.

12 and 24-word seeds are equally safe from any computer likely to exist in the next several decades, possibly ever

[Alone-Hospital-6028]

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Well hopefully the seed phrase, once generates is off the market from being generated again. Yes, that is the point of a passphrase, another line of defense in case someone were to happen to stumble across your seed phrase. Either one of the trezors will be fine.

The very same flaws exist with the 24 words. I personally have set a long passphrase to stop a rando from accessing my crypto.

Adding a passphrase dose create a new wallet derived from your seed phrase, to keep your crypto safe, keep all of it inside the ‚hidden wallet‘.

[cH3x]

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LOL, it’s like you’re asking, „Could someone go to the beach somewhere in the world and pick up the one grain of sand I’ve tagged?“

Yes, yes they *could.* But I doubt they will.

[sugar-in-the-gastank]

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These articles should help:

[https://trezor.io/learn/a/passphrases-and-hidden-wallets](https://trezor.io/learn/a/passphrases-and-hidden-wallets)

[https://trezor.io/learn/a/seed-backup-12-vs-24-words](https://trezor.io/learn/a/seed-backup-12-vs-24-words)

[Creepy-Individual976]

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**“Could the seed phrase in my wallet still get randomly generated and check balance from blockchain explorers?“**

yes, basically seedphrase+passphrase(if present) is a way to your private key (and private key is simply a number) so anyone guess your private key correctly, they can check the balance and transfer your money.

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**“as for the passphrase would also avoid my funds getting drained if someone finds my seed phrase?“**

yes, adding passphrase to seedphrase generates totally new wallet, so people need the passphrase to get the correct wallet

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**“I was thinking on getting model T, but I saw it generates 12 words phrase instead of 24 so I would go with the model one.“**

the length of seedphrase is not really a thing to choose the wallet.

* for model T, I love the way we type everything on device, it is super safety way for the seeds/password, but I hate the touch screen, it’s too small to tap and bring some extra device fault.
* for model One, I love the simply and reliable of the design, buttons is enough and working perfectly. but I hate the way of using with computer mouse/keyboard, and if you want to recover a wallet with 12 seedphrase (generate from Metamask or Trezor model T), you should use the advanced recovery mode. (if you go for standard mode, you type your 12 seed words with keyboard in unordered, but hacker can keylog everything and guess the correct order in few days).

[More_Ad2661]

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I think Trezor will be releasing a new wallet later this year, might worth waiting.

[matejcik]

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you can read this article (from a Trezor competitor 🙂 ) about security of 12 words: https://foundationdevices.com/2023/06/make-12-words-the-standard/

some tl;dr:

**Myth:** „chances are close to 0“
**Truth:** _Technically_, the chance is non-zero. _Practically_, there is no chance at all. Quantum tunneling _technically_ gives you a small chance to run through a wall and appear on the other side, but that’s never actually going to happen either.

**Myth:** „quantum computers could change the game“
**Truth:** Quantum computers are not magic. They are surprisingly good at _specific problems_. Brute-forcing through all seeds is _not_ one of those problems.

**Myth:** „somewhere some guys might be „mining“ seed phrases“
**Truth:** (a) that can’t be done in any sort of meaningful sense, and (b) if it _could_ be done, those hypothetical „some guys“ would instead hit Bitcoin addresses directly. Brute-forcing through all Bitcoin private keys is exactly as difficult as brute-forcing through all 12-word seed phrases.

[Business_Smile]

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short answers:

– no, it can’t be generated; that is only theoretically possible, not practically

– Yes, with a passphrase (a meaningfully long one, e.g. 7 words) your seed is safe, even if found (keep it still safe tho and backup the passphrase separately)

– The generation is cryptographically just as secure

[Autor]

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